Recorded live March 19, 2020. The team from Draft2Digital with special guest Dave Chesson talk about metadata, keyword research, and how to leverage search tools (like Amazon and Google) to bring more readers to your books!
Be sure to check out Dave Chesson online at http://kindlepreneur.com
And read Dave's guest post, "5 Self-Publishing Tools That Will Boost Your Author Career
A full transcript is available below the video!
book, amazon, people, question, dave, sub genre, author, printer, categories, kindle, market, rocket, writing, print, creating, barnes, kobo, german, check, add
Mark Lefebvre, Kevin Tumlinson, Dave Chesson
Kevin Tumlinson 00:01
Well hello everybody and we're coming in like one minute early. So we're gonna make you wait in silence.
Mark Lefebvre 00:09
We’ll just stare at each other. Is that what we’re gonna do?
Kevin Tumlinson 00:12
Mark Lefebvre 00:12
Kevin Tumlinson 00:15
Hey, welcome to D2D Live for March 2020. We are helping you stay within your social distancing parameters. We hope you're-- everybody's healthy out there and everybody's in care themselves, but we're glad that you took the time to tune in. And we've got a special guest this month we're talking to Dave Chesson. You'll know him from Kindlepreneur. Self publishing was it Publishing Rocket? I'm gonna screw up all the names of everything you do. Day one, you talk tell everybody what you're into.
Dave Chesson 00:49
Sure! I run Kindlepreneur.com, a website devoted to teaching advanced book marketing. I also am the owner and creator of Publisher Rocket software. That helps authors to understand what's going on in the book market as well as make better decisions on their keywords, categories, and their Amazon ads.
Kevin Tumlinson 01:13
See, that was so much better than what I was gonna call it.
Dave Chesson 01:15
Well you know, it’s funny ‘cause if you asked my wife, she's like ‘eh you do something.’
Kevin Tumlinson 01:16
He does things with pixels.
Dave Chesson 01:21
Yeah.’ That's like, I don't know, every time you come up for dinner, all I hear is blah, blah. And I'm like, Uh huh. Yeah.
Mark Lefebvre 01:23
Because people always ask something that's related to it, what it used to be called, people may recognize KDP Rocket? Yep. And that was that was within the last year you changed it to Publisher Rocket? Correct?
Dave Chesson 01:35
Yeah. So originally, when I created it, it was just ebooks. So it only focused on the Kindle aspect of books, but we came up with version two a year ago. And it includes book data. And very soon we're going to be including Audible data as well. So you'll be able to get all three. Yeah, it's um, we've been working with publishing companies and pulling in their data and studying for almost a year now. And so really jazzed about that.
Dave Chesson 02:00
The other thing too is that we're in talks with Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and iTunes to include their data. It's taking a lot longer than I'd like. But you know, I mean, when you work with those organizations, it takes a bit.
Kevin Tumlinson 02:13
We know a little something about that.
Dave Chesson 02:14
out that, right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it was really hard for us to initiate the conversations when our name was KDP Rocket, so we had to be a bit more, you know, intelligent and a little bit of, you know, switcheroo for the initiations.
Kevin Tumlinson 02:25
Forward thinking, we like it.
Mark Lefebvre 02:28
That’s fantastic. I was wondering if you were making that move when you changed the name, because it becomes a lot more broad in scope.
Dave Chesson 02:36
Yeah, absolutely. And, like I said, they liked it much better. So we're like, okay, that works.
Kevin Tumlinson 02:42
Now we got you this week. Not only are you on the show with us, but you we did a blog post from you, which I'll let me go ahead and I'm gonna go ahead and link now we share it again later. There we go. That's it. That's a lot to type in. But if you go what it should have done was just say go to draft2digital.com/blog and currently it is the top entry on the page. So, five self publishing tools that will boost your author career. And excellently done, Dave. Thank you, thank you for that contribution.
Dave Chesson 03:13
Yeah, you bet I've, you know, I'm a huge proponent of being able to increase our effectiveness and efficiency as authors because the truth of the matter is, is that you can really sit down and work with one thing, and you know, like, let's face it, there are a lot of famous authors that still use like, you know, 1990 computers, and, and things like that, or they have their practice. But each day, I find that there's something that helps me to be able to write more, write better, and at the same time helps me to market my book so that I can spend more time with writing.
Kevin Tumlinson 03:47
That's the key man. more time with writing is what it's all about. And yeah, what I like now the tools that you pick, there are things that I you know, I recommend a lot. I know Mark recommends a lot. What was your criteria? For filtering tools put on there, because that could have easily been the top 1000 tools that I use for self publishing.
Dave Chesson 04:08
Yeah, well, you know, usually like, it's funny is that especially in Kindlepreneur, I get asked all the time, “Hey, would you like to try this thing?” or, “Hey, I heard about this thing,” you know. What is your take on it? I can't try them all. But one of the things that really helps me to figure out which ones I do want to try is I like to know whether or not the people behind it are Self Publishers or publishers or in the book world that that's, that's a major indicator to me. I love it when I see people who truly are, you know, making their own book as a as a creator myself. I love the fact that I have a team of programmers and then I'm writing because I'm always running into these things where I'm like, “Oh, man, you know, it wouldn't be great if…” Like, Oh, yeah, why don't we do that? And so I really like that forward thought.
Dave Chesson 04:46
The second thing is I like to see that they've been around for a while and they show continuous growth, you know, when you invest in programming, you invest in in “this is my writing tool,” or “this is my whatever it is,” if I see that they are constantly improving and adding, that's always a good sign that this isn't something where they create it and they walk off.
Dave Chesson 05:08
I mean, you know, back in the day when you guys were first started, that was a huge thing. When I jumped on Draft2Digital was I saw that you guys were always, like, making it better. You found what was working. I'm not gonna say a name of a company, but this company was doing something. But they had so many things they were not doing. And they were like, Hey, we're gonna do that. And then immediately you're like, Oh, hey, we saw this problem. We fixed that. Hey, you know what, that'd be cool. And that's, that's what I love to see in companies. With authors, we get into our system, and we have our way of doing things. So if you're going to invest in something, I want it to be something that is always there. And it's always going to make it better.
Kevin Tumlinson 05:43
Yeah, yeah, that's why we bring we bring you on Dave because you'll pimp us so that we don't have to. So we've got a growing pile of questions going here. So I'm gonna go ahead and we're gonna get to some of the first ones, but I had to I had to post this up. This was actually the first comment from Tom right? I says hello D2D team and fellow writers. Welcome to the wonderful world of introverts teaching the world how to survive. So we got lots of “hello”s.
Mark Lefebvre 06:18
As you're looking through the questions, I was gonna ask Dave a question because Dave, you're still writing, right? You're still writing? How, how have you balanced that? Because a lot of writers are trying to balance writing with what they're doing. And obviously, Kindlepreneur takes a lot of your time. How do you prioritize writing within…? Because you are the guy, right? The guy we always turn to for analytics and stuff.
Dave Chesson 06:40
Well, thank you that that's really cool to hear. Um, I kind of do what I've always done, which is I have my block of time in the morning that is devoted 100% to writing. It doesn't matter. I also kind of punish myself if I don't get up early enough for it. I have this rule that if I don't get up by 4:30 in the morning, I don't get coffee for the day. So…
Mark Lefebvre 06:58
Oh my god. Yeah.
Dave Chesson 07:00
But it's a bit masochistic or so I've been told, and, yeah, but you know, it's like, I don't know, it just helps me to get up in the morning because I know it's like, I want that coffee. And so I'm gonna have that beautiful morning where I get up and I have my coffee and I feel great and I write. And the key is, is that I'll turn off all internet or not, well, I will turn off things like I have the Facebook feed blocker, I will make sure everything's… no email, no nothing so nobody can distract me. I sit down, I get my writing done. And then by 7:30, I go up and I usually go drink my green smoothie and I then begin the rest of the day. When I was working full time for the military, it was very important that I did writing in the morning and then studies at night and by studies is learning something new, you know, making that my time to learn how to write a better book description or making that time to learn about WordPress You know, when I was creating a website and stuff like that, but that way nothing ever takes over and I'm not not-writing or I'm not not-learning. So
Mark Lefebvre 08:02
Appreciate that. Yeah.
Kevin Tumlinson 08:03
So here will pop up the first question. So this one's coming from YouTube. Hi, YouTube. Not the individual but the entire platform. So, Dave, what with the popularity of translations growing, when can we expect the Euro stores to be visible on Publisher Rocket? And then he has a question for us D2D folks.
Dave Chesson 08:23
Yeah, well, actually the German market and this will we actually just create an update for Rocket today. And it includes the German market inside of it. We haven't announced it yet. Because it's funny is that Amazon Germany has been really strange over the past couple of weeks. Matter of fact, they like stopped giving book data, but they have all that ebook data. So if you have rocket, you have the new version, which I think is called .43, click on that American flag, switch over to German. And you can also switch over the translation and start using it. I think it's phenomenal for Amazon ads right now because even if your book isn't translated To German, just putting your English book on the German market with the lack of competition is a really good thing to definitely work. But again, we're waiting for Amazon to stabilize a bit. And so that we can get the book data as well. And then we'll make it a big announcement. But you guys are the only ones that have heard it. So high five to all you Rocket owners that are listening to this because you've got some inside information
[Kevin and Mark both raise their arms in celebration.]
Mark Lefebvre 09:25
We’re Rocket owners right here.
Dave Chesson 09:26
Now to finish up on Nikki Mond question. We're right now working with the UK market as well. So once the German market stabilizes, then we'll be adding the UK. The process for us is that we don't just tweak everything and then put it on there. We spend a lot of time working with publishing companies creating a kind of a relationship with them so that we can constantly be fed the right data so that we're always improving our analysis. The one thing I do not want to do is come out with that market and have our information be misleading or wrong. So we're very systematic about it. It's better to say I'm sorry, wait until I can finally say, I really like this data, and we really think it's strong. So that's really our goal with that, with regards to the rest of the market, we're studying them. So if you're like looking for Spain, or Brazil, or, you know, Japan or whatever, the problem that we're finding with those other markets is that they're extremely... [sigh] The information difference between those markets is extremely slight. And we're having a hard time finding a lot of publishing companies to work with us. So we're getting there, but it may take a while. But I feel very strongly about the UK, German in the US market. And luckily, those are the three biggest markets there. So that's that's a good thing.
Kevin Tumlinson 10:53
Yeah. So we have a it's a sort of question from Donna pool. Asking, saying “asking the same question as last time D2D can't wait to open up the paperback book option to all how soon. I'm getting old here!” Soon. Now we actually have a major site overhaul that is about the launch within the next week or so that is going to include some of the features we need in order to make D2D print, go live for all so but we are also going to be opening up the beta again and starting to onboard people again. So there's a real good chance you'll just be included in the beta as soon as we're able to open it back up. And that's pretty much where we stand on that thing. Oh, I need to go back. I want to loop back real quick. Because there was a question about how non-English titles were doing. So we got a response from Dan Wood who is filling me in on that. For years non-English was less than 30%. Now it's 40%. So it's growing and he also said German has typically been our second biggest market, but French was last year.
Mark Lefebvre 12:04
Vive la France. Hey, I'm French. What can I say?
Kevin Tumlinson 12:09
Yeah. Okay, uh, let's see, Aaron Oliver is wondering about tax issues and self publish or normal business deductions available to us, like cost of printing books, promotion costs, expenses for travel to signings, etc.
Mark Lefebvre 12:23
We need to bring in a tax expert, don't we?
Kevin Tumlinson 12:25
We probably should, you know, I've gotten some people in mind. My whole financial and tax expert. I'm open to like, go ahead Dave.
Dave Chesson 12:32
I can speak a little bit about that, um, because I actually own three different businesses of which I've established under limited liability corporations as a escort. So all three of them are that way. We're extremely adamant about making sure that we have them very separate. That's the biggest thing is that if you do create a corporation or LLC or you know, you turn your self publishing into a business, it's not just creating the LLC. It's also all the things you do, you know, to make sure that the money does not cross the streams, right? I always think of like Ghostbusters when they’re like don't cross the streams? Well, each one has their own bank account. And when you do that, yes, I do use the business to pay for my travel. So when it's Kindlepreneur related, I am using the business's credit card, not my personal and then having the business reimburse me, but my business credit card, and then I am… that money is like there's a tax benefit to that the business is paying for it. So it's not coming to me and then personal tax, right. But the key is, is making sure that you're collecting your receipts that you're submitting them that you have record of them. I think that's a big part. Now is there some like giant tax benefit or something like Oh, man, you know, this person who created the LLC is going to get this like, thing that the government's talking about? In most cases, not but again, it really comes down to how you operate. But I think the biggest thing is having the business pay for a lot of your travel, in this case, if you're doing book sales or book marketing or what have you, and then that not being taxed as personal.
Kevin Tumlinson 14:14
Yeah, I know that. Now, this is by the way, we should preface this by saying all anything tax related. First of all, none of us are tax experts.
Dave Chesson 14:23
Yep. Shoulda started with that.
Kevin Tumlinson 14:24
Don't, don't follow our advice by default. Go check with an actual tax expert.
Dave Chesson 14:29
And one thing I will I will say-
Mark Lefebvre 14:31
Or in Canada or the UK or Australia or Germany or France, or wherever you are
Kevin Tumlinson 14:37
What we’re mostly talking about is US taxes. So you're gonna want to check in your region. And Dave, you had something you're gonna add. I'm sorry.
Dave Chesson 14:43
I was gonna say, I did a podcast interview with my tax lawyer asking them all those questions and to explain it and so there, he starts with the whole you can't hold me at this point. I am a tax lawyer. So here is the information so be sure to check that out if you have real Tax Questions. It was a plethora of of information for me as well. And it was great because I got to like ask him the questions without him charging me. ‘Cause he was on the podcast. So that's-
Kevin Tumlinson 15:10
That’s the biggest reason to have a podcast is right to get insider information like that. This one's a D2D only question. So Randy Scott asks, I've tried to order my books to the library through both hoopla and OverDrive, but they don't show up. He shows they're published on both these platforms. Randy, you might want to reach out to our support folks directly. You can you can email firstname.lastname@example.org and let them know if you're having an issue there.
Mark Lefebvre 15:42
I think what he may be wondering is, he's not seeing it on the on the library's website? That may be because the library has to curate, right? There's two ways that libraries get them? Right. The library curates them so they order from OverDrive then put them in the catalog that might be why you're not seeing them, so you may need to contact your local library. I mean, our support team can help if it's a technical glitch, but if it's the fact that the library hasn't yet acquired them, that could be why.
Kevin Tumlinson 16:08
That's, that's a very good point. So you might want to actually contact the library itself first. And if they say, “What book, what are you talking about?” then reach out to our support. So, next question. Oh, gosh, “How do you feel that this horrible coronavirus will affect indie writers?” I have lots of opinions about this. Who wants to hop on first?
Mark Lefebvre 16:30
I actually got a project done that has been on the back burner for ages because two recent trips were canceled. So for me as a writer, I got more time on my calendar to get those writing projects done. So So I understand it is it is not a good thing. There's people that are dying. Self isolation is teaching me you know, different ways of dealing with day to day activities. It doesn't really change when you work from home doesn't really changed that much. But I've been trying. I try to be an optimist and I try to look at what I've been able to do. And I've been able to focus more on that, Dave. I'm jealous. You get up at 4:30 I don't get up till 5:30 I feel like a complete deadbeat. But that's, that's when I get my, my extra writing time done in the morning. How about you guys?
Dave Chesson 17:19
From our data analysis, we're seeing that there's an uptick in sales on books on Amazon.
Mark Lefebvre 17:25
Dave Chesson 17:26
Oh, yep. And I think a lot of it's coming down to the fact that… I'm projecting that that's going only going to increase as we start to fall into this new norm. But there's a lot more people who are choosing to be socially isolated. Netflix is probably getting a high amounts of streams. And so are books. People, you know, my wife is finally reading the one of the 50 different books that she's bought that she never read. I've been crushing out some audiobooks like crazy because you know, why not? My projection is that as people, as we kind of fall into this acceptance of being home more and not traveling as much and not going places, that books are just going to be picked up even more. So Amazon is still supplying them physical books and ebooks. Interesting enough, you know, there was a bit of scare where Amazon said that it's only going to be essential items and medical items that they were going to be stocking. It's not that they're not going to be shipping out the other stuff. What it is, is that they're making sure that their warehouses have the extra stuff first. But interestingly enough, in the fine print, they talk about books being a part of that as well.
Mark Lefebvre 18:36
Yeah, books are essential!
Dave Chesson 18:37
Right, well, and I thought that was great. And I think the way that Amazon's looking at it is, is that we can't figure out which books are going to be essential. But there's a lot of information that is essential to people. So that's why they've included in that list. So Amazon's still going to supply physical books, and more importantly, people are going to be looking for information, they're going to be looking for something to take care of their time. So I see book sales actually increasing during this time period.
Kevin Tumlinson 18:57
Now I'm still working on my new novel Love in the Time of Covid-19. And that's guaranteed bestseller. We got a question for you, Dave. Specifically for you this time, are there specific genres that seem better in the UK in German markets?
Dave Chesson 19:17
Ah, um, you know, the thing is, is that from what I can tell- So we've actually, we've got all of the German categories listed in rocket now as well. So they're there. We're collecting the historical data. sometime soon, we're actually going to be publishing a new update that will show all historical data for every category on Amazon. So you can look at sales trends and everything. And from what I've seen, initially, just from the German I haven't been analyzing the UK as hard because we're gathering the initial data. But from the German I'm seeing kind of the same stuff I see in the US I'm not seeing a disparity. You know, romance is still big. The same things that I see in the US so I can't give you some really awesome nugget there. Only that the general rule of thumb is to kind of treat the same as you see it in the US as well.
Kevin Tumlinson 20:04
Yeah, I think that's good advice. Also, if you're looking to hit big in Germany, write about David Hasselhoff and you will you will float your way to success. So this is probably a D2D only question: “What platform do you recommend for creating a children's picture ebook? Are you guys working on creating a tool for this soon?” We, you know, picture books, children's books, that's a that's a difficult thing to get set up on on the on a e-reader. So we don't really have a lot of options. Matt mark, you probably know a few inside tips on this.
Mark Lefebvre 20:40
Yeah, I know. I mean, when I worked at Kobo, Kobo set up a completely dedicated parent and children website. And after a year and a half of putting a lot of energy and marketing and promotions into it. They shut it down. What does that tell you? If a business decides that they're not going to do it, and I can tell you how as a guy who worked at Kobo, and I had access to every sexy Kobo device in the universe, with my little guy Alexander who's now not so little, he's 15 and taller than me. But, even though he had access to any book he wanted in the store, from from Kobo with kids books and devices to easily read them. He has still gravitated to print books, and even now, he does everything else online. He does the video games and YouTube and all the other stuff is digital. And he still gravitates to print books.
Kevin Tumlinson 21:29
Yeah. So people discovered there's there was a tiny bit of research on this as well that kids really still prefer the print books, something that you can hold in your hand, something tangible. But if you are looking to do a digital version, I know that Apple has some tools that can help you do that. It's just it's difficult, too. It's a difficult thing to manage. But there are tools out there I would just kind of look around.
Mark Lefebvre 21:58
And I would and I would recommend you follow focus more of your time and energy on the print books for kids. And that's using Ingram Spark, for example, to get that out into the market in the broadest way possible. And then obviously, there's different I think you can go to Reedsy you potentially to find people who can help you with, you know, if you need help with design and some of the more technical aspects of getting it ready. Does that make sense? Right, I don't think we're gonna we're probably we have so many things we want to release, we're probably not going to invest a lot of our development time into digital versions of picture books for kids because there's not as many. There's the market isn't as big for that.
Kevin Tumlinson 22:42
So, Dave, I forgot to I meant to show you this really early on, but I have a special shirt on. [Kevin shows off Publisher Rocket shirt.]
Dave Chesson 22:54
Hey, oh, love it.
Kevin Tumlinson 22:58
Alright, so moving on. Um, this one's This one's a tricky question that so we can all three throw in on this one. So ideas, but I'm just gonna warn you, we're not going to be able to just answer this thoroughly in, in the limited time we have, but “I'm not able to sell any of my books on D2D. What do you suggest so that I can see some of my books read by the readers?” And this is really just going to come down to being some marketing tips, honestly. So who would love to jump in first or? [Dave raises hand.] Go ahead, Dave, you're the you're kind of an expert here. I think so.
Dave Chesson 23:27
Well, um, I did a podcast interview where I had somebody who was extremely successful in selling outside of Amazon, and then somebody in somebody else who was extremely successful because of KU. And what we did was he analyzed why was the one person successful or the other, and why was the other one more successful than the other and so forth. And what we found was that the person who was selling outside of Amazon the most, they were successful because they were doing marketing efforts to those other markets.
Dave Chesson 24:00
Okay, they were actually pushing to get reviews on their Barnes and Noble listing, they were getting reviews on their iTunes. What's really interesting, I think is that one review in Barnes and Noble is I would almost say the equivalent of 10 reviews on Amazon just because there aren't that many reviews if you get five reviews on your book on Barnes and Noble that carries way more than all your competitors who don't have any. And so this author had said, You know, I not only focused on reviews, I focused on making my book description look good for it. I focused on doing Facebook ads to people who like the Nook and my genre I focused on and when when she did this, she was able to see her books really carry now she was still seeing it was I think she said 40% of her income was coming from markets outside of Amazon, which is significantly higher than most people see, but again, she was like because nobody else is thinking to market their books like they aren't Amazon but to the other thing.
Dave Chesson 25:01
So I would say that if you're selling outside of Amazon, actually treat those other markets like you are Amazon, try to drive some reviews, try to get some people, you know, try to do some marketing tactic tactics pointing to it, just putting them there and then not seeing the sales. You know, without any effort. I mean, it's kind of the same as Amazon, right? If you just throw your book up there and you don't do anything about it…?
Kevin Tumlinson 25:24
Right? It's always gonna come down to marketing. There are a lot of tools out there and you know, it's just gonna depend on your resources budget not sure thing. A lot of people like to use things like Facebook ads, to drive [sales]. I've had very little success with driving direct sales with Facebook ads and more success and list building those. But there are tools out there like BookFunnel, and BookBub is a popular way to market your books, BargainBooksy, FreeBooksy. These are sites that are set up for reaching out to readers in their database. They do have some overhead, you're gonna have to pay a fee, sometimes pretty, pretty high, depending on the genre and the number of people on their list etc. But you might want to look into some of those options and just see if something fits.
Kevin Tumlinson 26:16
But one recommended recommendation I have is to go off, go out on like Facebook and join some groups and start collaborating with others and asking questions and seeing what other authors are doing to promote your books, especially those who write in the same genre similar to similar novels, and then just start kind of implementing some of the things you learn. That's the shortcut, because otherwise, there's a ton we could probably go into in specific detail, but we'd eat up you know, the rest of this hour and maybe the next four or five hours trying to cover everything
Kevin Tumlinson 26:51
So, but one solid tip, and one I can't recommend highly enough is to go visit this website right here draft2digital.com/blog And we got lots of tips there. And also this little guy, Kindlepreneur.com. Oh man, Kindlepreneur.com (Dude, change your domain name.) Go check out those two sites, you're bound to find something useful to help you market your books.
Kevin Tumlinson 27:18
Okay. Scrolling on down, I see one of the things I don't like about the service we use, by the way, guys, is my little side rant. If I click away, I got to go down the last question. I was trying to put up some streamyard guys take note. Um, let's see. Here's one. This one's not specific to so but maybe we can offer some because we did say ask us anything. “Hey from Christchurch, New Zealand.” That's a long ways off “interested in more information on how to best set up an author presence on Facebook. When using a nom de plume. There are rules and it seems formidable.” So I am not the world's foremost expert on all things Facebook, but I mean I, I do have my profiles and pages and groups, but I really don't leverage it much. So maybe you guys might have some better advice.
Mark Lefebvre 28:11
Well, I could start and then Dave, I'm sure you'll, you'll top it off with a beautiful cherry on top. One of the things to think about when you're thinking about social media presence, whether it's Facebook or any other is think about who your target readers are, and why they would want to pay attention to the page whether it's an author presence, whether it's… Now I do for example, I do a lot of traditionally published paranormal true ghosts storybooks. And, and a lot of them are based on specific cities. So Spooky Sudbury, Macbre Montreal, Creepy Capital and which is Ottawa, Canada's capital city, and Haunted Hamilton. And on those sites 80 to 90% of the things I share are cool things about the city and people's love for their home city. And that gets me way more traction than any sort of marketing or sales stuff, I get a lot more people interested in our haunted hospital site, because I'm sharing interesting articles and interesting videos and interesting things related to that topic, not to the book. So one of the things I would advise if you're looking at author presence is think about your audience and think about what it is that you're putting on that platform that you're sharing with them. That is interesting, intriguing that you can engage with them that they want to share with other people. That's probably a good way to go. And I know if you're creating a fan page for your author profile or for a particular book, you're focusing on that content that drives the people interested in that topic, rather than worrying about trying to sell your book.
Dave Chesson 29:51
Yeah, the only thing I would add is, I gotta admit the using a nom de plume and creating a Facebook page for it and trying to build a sollowing for it is really hard. Yeah, I mean, it's hard on so many levels. First off is separating yourself and making sure that you know, you're putting yourself in that author, nom de plume shoes, and then creating a following where they're gonna want to read your content that that can be a huge task. Now, where I've seen it really work is when authors who have a following are ready, then have the Facebook page and they're doing live sessions, you know that they're interacting. People feel closer to someone when they see them. Brandon Sanderson, you know, who I think is one of the best fantasy authors ever of our time. I love that guy. He has been doing these sessions on Facebook and they are so cool. And I'm more in love with his writing just because I get to hear him as he's either opening stuff up for signing, he usually is signing autographs on books, you know, as he's talking. Incredible, he's getting work done. And he's interacting with me like, that's great. But to be able to convince new people to follow, especially with a nom de plume at where you can't really, I mean, you probably did a pen name for the sole purpose of keeping some separation between who you are and who your writing is. It's really hard to be personal, when you can't be personal. So I'm not too much of a fan of investing too much time into trying to build a Facebook following with a pen name. It just really becomes hard to do, right? When you have to kind of separate yourself from that.
Kevin Tumlinson 31:42
Yes, I agree. That's, that's the way I say when I was doing something else and someone finished talking and I had to pop right back in.
Mark Lefebvre 31:51
You know, Kevin, that you need to shave your beard, you know, just suggesting.
Kevin Tumlinson 31:55
It would not be the first time that I've been bitten in the butt by public. And saying yes, exactly I agree. Now this is from one of our team. Alexis says D2D actually has a self marketing guide that you that can be asked for upon request, if you email into support that’s email@example.com tons of useful info from the man the myth, the legend himself, Kevin. Thank you, Alexis. So yes, we do have that and we have some like author marketing 101 stuff on the blog, so pop in and email support and they'll be happy to send you that way.
Kevin Tumlinson 32:37
So we have a question “Do I need to get my book into Amazon myself? Or does D2D do it? How do I go about that?” So the answer is we will! We can send you to Amazon. Yes. Yes, we can. And I got to do is pop over to draft2digital.com set up your account, and you would get your book roll in there. And when you get to the point where you can choose your storefront Amazon is one of the storefronts You can choose along with Barnes and Noble, Apple books, Kobo, several others and subscription services libraries, we got all kinds of stuff. But I'm going to be I'm just going to be frank and honest with you now, and heck, they may just boot me out of D2D for this.
Mark Lefebvre 33:17
No, I'll back you up on this. I know what you're gonna say.
Kevin Tumlinson 33:20
If I were you, I would go to Amazon directly and come to us for everyone else. And the reason is-
Dave Chesson 33:28
That’s what I do. Yeah.
Kevin Tumlinson 33:29
It’s what I do!
Mark Lefebvre 33:29
That’s what I do too.
Kevin Tumlinson 33:30
So because we added Amazon and we [inaudible] I am sorry, Kris our CEO, for this but let me we added Amazon primarily because so many people asked for it. And because there are there are those who just want to have everything in a nice convenient place and we are the best nice convenient place there is out there. So we added it because people wanted it and they were asking for it. But honestly you can earn a little more. There are a few more advantages to being direct Amazon and it's just overall, probably the best strategy, just go to them direct and then you can use us for everyone else. In fact, with some retailers, Barnes and Noble, for example, we can often get you a better deal going to Barnes & Noble through us, then you would go in direct. So. But all that said, anybody have anything you want to add to that?
Mark Lefebvre 34:18
Well, I want to say one of the things I'm-
Kevin Tumlinson 34:21
Before I’m fired and no longer allowed to-
Mark Lefebvre 34:22
One of the things I often use Kindlepreneur for or Publisher Rocket for is Amazon ads and you cannot run Amazon ads unless you're using KDP to publish directly to Amazon, and could be at least a lead into how people use Amazon keywords. The keywords available through Kindlepreneur or Publisher Rocket and even for creating ads. I think I think it's really important to poke Dave about that and ask Yes. Because I'm sure there's people who are not familiar with just how sexy a tool this is.
Dave Chesson 34:57
Sure, well, one of the questions that we had a bit early At 3:20pm from Charley Marsh, says, “Dave, can you explain how to use rocket to find potential sub genres to write in?” And I think that's a really good question. The problem is, is that I would almost have to ask Charlie a couple of questions by specifically what they mean about sub genres. Because when I hear sub genres, I'm thinking that you're an author and in fiction. You've decided say Fantasy, but you're trying to figure out which sub and almost want to say sub-sub-genre of fantasy it is right. One thing I would definitely say to fiction authors is it's really not a good idea to jump from genre to genre. If you are a sci-fi military writer, then you write in sci fi military and that's really important you establish yourself because you have to be a very prolific author for me to want to jump from one to the other.
Dave Chesson 35:51
We talked about Brandon Sanderson, which I'm just going to say with that. He writes, I mean, he's famous for his fantasy. And you know, he wrote the Wheel of Time when he finished The Wheel of Time did a phenomenal job of it. He also wrote The Way of Kings, which is excellent. And then I picked up a book of his that came out. I think it's called Skyward, I think was the first title? I always forget the title. But I thought I was reading a fantasy. And I started reading it. And all of a sudden, I was like, Wait a second. This is a… this is a sci-fi dystopian. This is like The Last Starfighter. What just happened? And I was so shocked about it. But I mean, I love his book so much that I bought it without even reading the description apparently. And I absolutely love it. But you know, you have to be really incredible to jump those genres.
Dave Chesson 36:41
Now subtle changes in genres, like for example, say you're writing in sci fi, military space, marine, or alien invasion. And then you write one that's maybe hard science. I don't think that's too much of a jump for you to be able to do that and have your friend your fans follow.
Dave Chesson 36:58
So how exactly does Rocket play into this? Well, when you're looking at genres, and I'm assuming you're trying to figure out if there's a sub sub genre of your, of your type of writing, and whether or not one is more popular over another. And perhaps that should be your next book to focus on. If that is the way that you're looking to choose your next fiction, or what you're going to try to develop a story on. The thing that I would say that would probably help most with that train of thought, is looking at our category search. We took all 14,000 categories on Amazon and put them in there. You can type in, like the word fantasy, and it will pull every genre or every Amazon category, which in a way is a genre or sub genre, and lay them all out there. Interesting enough, you'll find a lot of fantasy categories that are not in the fantasy main category lay down. You'll find fantasy and six other main categories, which is really unique because that's where you'll find categories that no other books attach themselves to because they don't think to look beyond fantasy. I think it's like literature fiction, you'll find fantasy. You'll even find fantasy under sci fi, which is weird, but it's true. And it's still very fantasy related. I don't know why they do it. But the point though is, is that you can discover what's going on in these categories and even more so different ways to describe them.
Dave Chesson 38:20
I was working with Katie Weiland, on one of her books. And we found that there was actually a sub sub genre called “Gaslamp” that was extremely popular and a perfect fit for her book. And she'd already written it. So we were just trying to find the categories. But that's one thing. One of the other things that's going to be coming out that I think I mentioned already is, is that we'll be adding all historical category data very soon. We've been collecting it for over a year. So from those 14,000 categories, you can click on one, and then you'll see a graph of the sales whether sales are increasing or decreasing inside of that category. You'll also be able to see the amount of authors that are competing or actually attached to that category, as well as whether it's how many new books have been added compared to last month. But all this data, I think, would give you even more ability to find out what sub sub genre is peaking or picking up or, you know, if it's if it's maybe seasonal, but you'll be able to easily see that and No, that won't be a subscription, that'll be a free upgrade for all current publisher rocket owners.
Dave Chesson 39:28
So I think that answers that from the perspective of sub genres. Now with regards to keywords, which is another way I could potentially interpret the word sub genres is that say, you have written your fiction book, okay? And you're trying to find the right way to position it in front of your type of readers. So with that said, you understand there's for Fiction specifically, I've got an article if you just type into Google fiction keywords, it should show Number one, but it's a step by step process on how fiction authors should go about generating their keyword ideas. [editor note: https://kindlepreneur.com/kindle-keywords-fiction-author-strategy/] And I highly recommend it. Because what's really cool is Amazon itself actually recommends that article to people when they're trying to come up with fiction keywords. And they even change their FAQ on how to generate keywords to follow the same five steps that I use, like one month after I published that article, and they promoted it. So I think I think that's the best way to be able to say that, that that's the right tactic to be able to use and having a better understanding of those words Rocket really helps with that.
Mark Lefebvre 40:35
I now have way more faith in Amazon's help text than ever before knowing that they're-
Kevin Tumlinson 40:42
They’re stealing from you. I accidentally revealed this a little early, but we have a question “Are your D2D print books going to allow us to upload our own cover files? I'd like to use D2D Print to provide paperbacks outside of Amazon.”
Kevin Tumlinson 40:57
And the answer is absolutely. Not only can you upload your own cover files, but if you only have your ebook cover file, we have a nifty tool that's built into this thing that will convert that to a wraparound print ready cover file for you. So whether or not you have that, you can come on in bring your bring your files, they're welcome, just like you are.
Kevin Tumlinson 41:23
Okay, so I wanted to kind of skip ahead. Last time, we ended up not answering asking a whole bunch of questions from folks who'd come in later. So, of course, as soon as I said that, here's one from Nate. I got, I got to ask a question from Nate. So, “quick question for Dave. Amazon usually goes after sites with Kindle in their name. Have they sent their trademark lawyers after you regarding Kindlepreneur.com?”
Dave Chesson 41:46
You know, that's a really good question. They have not. And it’s…
Kevin Tumlinson 41:50
That’s because they're using you for FAQs!
Dave Chesson 41:53
Yeah, right. Well, it is kind of hard for them to say that that's in. I guess my hope is that because of It's spelled one word. So that might help me. But I think the other thing is that they just approve of kind of what I'm doing. If I started, I think there's a couple things that protect me. Number one is, I technically do not sell a product called a Kindlepreneur. So it's like I've seen them go after courses that have the word Kindle in the name of the course because you're selling it. I've also seen them go after products that have the word Kindle in it, but because I'm not that, that's one thing. Another thing too is I can't do Amazon Associate on Kindlepreneur because of the word Kindle and that is in their terms of service for Amazon associate. But I also think it might be a bit hard to kind of come after me to considering that they in quote, and I screen captured it, they said “learn from the Kindlepreneur himself.” So it's like, okay, when Amazon says the name and they, they're promoting it and telling people? That's sort of, like you're gonna have a hard time. Not that I would ever fight I'd be like, okay, but you'd have a hard time to kind of like argue that that oh well we didn't prove that you did it actually but
Kevin Tumlinson 43:04
Dave Chesson 43:07
I got it! I got a screenshot of it, that's great. The other thing too though is I do have a backup plan I'm not gonna lie I own the domain ebookpreneur.com and if you type that into a search it will 301 redirect you right to kindleprineur but if push came to shove I'd become ebookpreneur.
Kevin Tumlinson 43:25
Okay ebookpreneur. It doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same way but I kind like it.
Mark Lefebvre 43:29
Maybe be bookpreneur printer because you're doing audiobooks and all the…?
Kevin Tumlinson 43:29
Dave Chesson 43:32
well there's actually a site already that has bookpreneur and it's massive! It probably has millions of-
Kevin Tumlinson 43:36
Welcome to preneurpreneur.com!
Mark Lefebvre 43:42
Davepreneur. I like it. I like him. Good.
Kevin Tumlinson 43:43
I know how to spell that. I'm going to use it everywhere. All right, so “what's the best way to combine publisher rocket with D2D? Well the same / similar keywords that PR gives us from Amazon work on other stores?” I've been answering this question for a long time. They But I think I want to hear your official answer to this question.
Dave Chesson 44:03
Well, yeah, that's, um, that's actually a really good question. The truth of the matter is, is that we've been, like I said, we've been working with draft2- or excuse me with Barnes and Noble and iTunes, and I'm not gonna lie, all I'm saying is kind of the same information. It's the same type of things people are typing into Amazon, they're typing into Barnes and Noble, they're typing into iTunes. And the truth of the matter is, is from what we've seen is it's just proportional. You know, if you're seeing, say, 10,000 people type this word into Amazon, we're seeing it like 2000 are typing it into Barnes and Noble, you know, and we're seeing 1500 are typing it into iTunes and almost same proportion is almost carrying across most of them. The only thing that's going to be really different is that Barnes and Noble and iTunes have different categories. Like Amazon, for some reason is all about having as many categories as possible and Barnes & Noble actually follows the BISAC codes a lot more than Amazon. I think there's there's just under 5000 BISAC codes. And there's 14,000 Amazon categories and there's about, you know, Barnes and Noble just uses bisects so definitely huge differences in categories. But really, I would say that when you look when you're looking for keywords for Barnes and Noble, iTunes, Kobo, and the rest of them the same information you get from Amazon is very indicative of what would be a good keyword or not a good keyword in those markets.
Kevin Tumlinson 45:31
Um, yeah that jives more or less what I basically I always tell people that where Amazon goes, everyone else's is more or less going to follow so you're probably okay with using your Amazon keywords and categories elsewhere if you can swing it so we have did you want to add something, Mark? I’m sorry.
Mark Lefebvre 45:51
Yeah I was gonna add something while you're looking for the next question, but you got the next question.
Kevin Tumlinson 45:54
I got the next question! So, “is it better to upload an ebook in InDesign or word can this can this book be published as paperback yet? I am new.” Welcome to the world, Victor. I'm sorry you got here when the virus was attacking us all. Um, so that was a joke and it fell flat. So yeah, I don't think [Mark: “I smiled!”] ultimately it's going to come down to whether you want full control over your layout and format or not. InDesign is a professional layout software, I wouldn't recommend going out and just buying it if all you're going to do is book layout. We can do your layout for you for free. If you upload your Word document. You can upload a Word document, an RTF file, an ODT file and when it comes to the print side, you can upload your PDF or if you have your ebook, pre formatted from some tool, you can upload that as well. So Vellum is a popular piece of software runs only on the Mac right now but it's pretty popular and a lot cheaper than InDesign. I think InDesign’s got like a monthly fee? So, but it really is just gonna depend on how much control you want over the layout. Anybody else want to chip in?
Dave Chesson 47:07
I was gonna say that if you're doing a textbook right and you need certain layouts then InDesign is the only way to go but otherwise I think is a beast to learn. Yeah, I was gonna say just submit it to Draft2Digital format for you. It's like coolest hack!
Kevin Tumlinson 47:23
My first book I was- oh, sorry Dave.
Dave Chesson 47:07
I was gonna say too that Reedsy has a free formatting kind of thing that you can put in there. It's limited in what it can do, but it's very intuitive and easy to use as well. So if you're like adamant that you need to do it, check that one out before you check out Vellum. Vellum I would say it's a bit expensive. It's a couple hundred if not $300. I think to be able to use? Yeah, if you are making multiple books like you're going to be in this industry then get velopment and enjoy it but otherwise the point a great cut is using Reedsy’s book formatter.
Kevin Tumlinson 48:00
Or Draft2Digital’s book formatter.
Mark Lefebvre 48:00
Yeah, try it for free.
Dave Chesson 48:04
If you just have to do it yourself use Reedsy’s. But if not, you don't have time for that, like a lot of people get the Draft2Digital convert.
Kevin Tumlinson 48:09
Yeah the D2D formatter by the way has some free templates that you can use to make the book look really nice. You can make your ebook and your books look uniform that way. Mark, you were adding something I'm sorry.
Mark Lefebvre 48:21
I was just gonna add and you can use the templates, which will be able to be used when paperback launches, Victor in just uhhh very shortly. Within the next month, probably the beta is going to be expanded.
Kevin Tumlinson 48:33
Yeah, yeah. Let's be clear about that the beta will be expanded. Yes. See, the D2D Print itself is not launching in the next month. We just want to make that clear. So and speaking of that, “does D2D format to print Where do I find that info?” Stay tuned. If you have a D2D account, we'll be making. We'll be sending out an email when we do our launch or reformat of the site. We're basically just Trying to make this more print friendly. For those who only want to do print or, you know, have special needs on that. So stay tuned, we're going to be, we will be getting to you, I promise.
Mark Lefebvre 49:13
So Terry, just make sure you've signed up for drafter digital, and you'll end and go into your notifications and make sure you're accepting those emails from us so that we can notify you about cool things like this live chat with Dave and D2D Print.
Kevin Tumlinson 49:27
This is a committed person, “I'm gonna I'm going to get a Mac to be able to use the pub maker you suggested last time what was it called? Again, I didn't write it down last time.” And that would be Vellum, which we were talking about earlier. So that's a that's a pricey commitment you decided to make but I respect you and if you're going to be doing a lot of books, as Dave pointed out, that's probably a good way to go. I see some folks had actually answered that in the comments but Haha, I get to talk and you don’t. [Editor note: Yeah but I get the last word so nyah :P]
Mark Lefebvre 49:55
You can check out Apple books pages as well, especially if you look at doing cookbooks or children's books, or any of those more complicated textbooks, etc. Apple pages is actually a pretty good program as well. So you can save a few hundred dollars, you're gonna spend thousands of dollars on a Mac, but you'll save a few hundred bucks on Vellum.
Dave Chesson 50:16
And I’ll say in there to Barbara Mueller, I hope I pronounced your name correctly, brought up an extremely good point, which is that you don't have to purchase a Mac. If you really want to use Vellum, you can do the Mac cloud, and then it's like a virtual base so that you can then access Mac apps without having to go that route. Although I love I love Macintosh, I've gotten nothing but Macintosh myself. Maybe it's a better experience for you. That's the thing. But if you're about to drop that much money just to be able to use the one program go Mac cloud, it'll save you.
Mark Lefebvre 50:49
I actually do that Dave, I've used Vellum through Mac in the cloud. You still have to purchase Vellum but I can still I've got another $30 in credit so I can just log in and it’s per hour.
Kevin Tumlinson 50:56
If you know someone who has Vellum, why don't you just throw them like 30 bucks and maybe they do it for you.
Mark Lefebvre 51:03
Yeah pay your friend.
Kevin Tumlinson 51:04
So “Can you send Dave's five ways article linked days five ways article?” [editor note: https://draft2digital.com/blog/5-self-publishing-tools-that-will-boost-your-author-career/] Well you're in luck here the actual link is super long and ugly so if you go to draft2digital.com/blog currently it is the first post up there if you're watching this in the future? [Mark: Scroll down?] Search. Search for Dave Chesson on Draft2Digital’s blog in order to be able to find it. Close enough.
Kevin Tumlinson 51:35
So we have a question here “I have a 60 second video sci-fi book ad… which platform would you suggest I promote this?”
Mark Lefebvre 51:45
Sounds like they're on YouTube right? That's where that question came from here? On YouTube?
Kevin Tumlinson 51:47
I'm trying to interpret the question maybe you guys are would have more luck with that.
Mark Lefebvre 51:56
When I promote this video… promoting…
Kevin Tumlinson 51:57
Promoting the ad or promoting the book What do we think? Well, what should we answer?
Mark Lefebvre 52:02
Okay, I think it's good to have the video and they want to use the video to promote the book, where should they push the video out? I'm going to start! I'm going to say, let's pick Amazon, the world's biggest bookstore, and you can create a free author central account, make sure that you've loaded it to your author central account, make sure you created a free author central account and loaded it there. So that's one thing you can do with that video.
Dave Chesson 52:25
One thing, if the question is should I do a video ad on YouTube or a video ad on Facebook? A couple of things that somebody should keep in mind. Number one is that a pro for YouTube his competition is ridiculously small on YouTube video ads. As a matter of fact, especially in the author community, you're going to find that um, that I think Grammarly? Owns the YouTube advertisements at this point? But you know, you can definitely target someone like the if, say it's sci-fi, which is sci-fi, you can totally target some of the nerd The nerd YouTube channels which I'm a huge fan of, I watch those things a lot. I think it would be great if I'm watching something, you know, that's analyzing whether Firefly is going to come back or not, you know, and I'm watching that video and all of a sudden a sci fi book pops up, and it's a good looking video that would probably drive me to do that. So that is one thing, there's a lot less competition. There are a lot less authors thinking about it, because there's not a lot of information out there. So you could try it.
Dave Chesson 53:25
The thing I do like about Facebook, though, is that with Facebook, I really like how you can really detail and you can create ads that are specific to certain markets. So you can really get deep in the woods, or deep into the information and target ads. The thing though, and this is just my personal belief, and I'm just going to put out there and be a little, you know, open. I know there are certain situations that it's like, well, this worked this way, but here's my general feel on it though. I've always seen that ads that are specific to the target market I'm looking at are the best kind. And what I mean by that is like, maybe I'm targeting fans of, of, you know, Starship Troopers that also love Firefly and having an image that's awesome that says something like, it's like Firefly and Starship Troopers had a baby. You know that that's a real connector because those two groups see that I know that only people that like those things are going to see this. They're going to engage with it more so having a video that doesn't kind of connect the specific target market that you're going for may hinder it. So just something to consider. So I guess there's really a pro and a con to each.
Kevin Tumlinson 54:47
Okay, I'm here we got a question about PR. “So is there any way that I can find someone who will help me doing PR for my books, I have three of them.” You know, PR is There are lots of agencies out there. And I always hesitate to tell people to go look at this stuff because there are a lot of predators out there as well. So what I would do is in order to find somebody to help you with the marketing and promotion of your work is kind of what I suggested earlier, I would join some author groups on Facebook. And don't don't post openly that you're looking for someone to help you market your books, but start paying attention to what people are saying and doing. And then maybe get into some private conversations with people who seem like they know what they're doing. And ask them for recommendations about ways that you can market your work and people they they may know who can help you. There are a lot of services out there there's some legit and some not so legit. I just hate to send you off into the shark infested waters. But you know, I always like to… the cling to shore method is to join some of these Facebook groups like the 20 books group on Facebook is probably a pretty good one for most people. You can learn quite a bit make some connections as well.
Mark Lefebvre 56:02
And Laurie, make sure before you spend a single penny on PR with any of those firms, especially the ones that advertise a lot are usually the sharks. They have the millions of dollars because they've they've sucked the blood out of out of hopeful writers looking for marketing and PR. Google their name, go check out writer beware by Victoria Strauss. Yes, yes, check them out. Before you spend money anywhere on marketing and PR. Please do yourself a favor and spend 10 minutes checking to see if these people are listed on writer beware, or the alliance of independent authors is another great place to check to see is this a legitimate company? Should I spend money with them?
Dave Chesson 56:42
Yeah, one other thing I would add to that if you are looking for a PR company, if they say we will do X, Y, and Z, then you understand that you're paying for that package and they will do X, Y, and Z. That is one thing okay? So like say for example they do. We will make a press release that will go out to these ones. Sites, okay. If those websites are cool, then that's good you understand the price, you're getting that. Now, here's where we get into where I call the sketchy is where the person says, we will market your book and we're gonna make it a best seller. Okay? My number one criteria of a go no go. Okay, if I were to say is that do they require to read your book first before they take you on as client? All right? If they're saying like, let's imagine that you have a really, really bad book, you know. It's poorly written, you didn't use an editor and yet this company is still saying that we're gonna, you know, that will market your book? Real great marketers will not work on a book unless they either, A) specialize in that area or be they've read your book and B) they think it's it's worthy of their marketing efforts or that it will succeed and be a good product. So think about that if you're looking for a marketer.
Mark Lefebvre 57:57
Okay, great point.
Kevin Tumlinson 57:58
So we are, we're closing in on the we're on the three minute mark. So we're gonna take a few minutes and talk about some sort of housekeeping stuff. First of all, make sure you are going over, I'm gonna put this back up for a second. [kindlepreneur.com banner appears] Make sure you're going to kindlepreneur.com so we can support our good friend, Dave. And thank you for being a source of wisdom on the show. And we want to make sure that we tell you about the, well you probably already know about this, but we offer we're offering free 30 minute offer consultations, not with Dave necessarily, unless he just wants to chip in.
Mark Lefebvre 58:38
Unless I can trick him to join me with one that someone like random consultation.
Kevin Tumlinson 58:41
You can go and sign up for a chance to talk to me, mark here or our good friend and co worker Dan wood to just sort of continue this little party of asking us anything. It's some advice, inside tips, whatever we can help you with it's 30 minute consult. We offer them free after practically everyone of these. Slots are limited. And I'm going to shut you down within 24 hours of this broadcast. So if you want to go get a slot go reserve one now.
Mark Lefebvre 59:11
My calendar has already exploded.
Kevin Tumlinson 59:13
Yeah, I mean, every time we do one of these I start seeing people people know that I'm going to have to switch up the URL at some point and change that out. So yeah, go pop it for that. And, in addition, make sure you're subscribing to us on YouTube [editor note: youtube.com/draft2digital] and Facebook [facebook.com/draft2digital]. YouTube, especially right now, if you're not if you're watching us on YouTube, and you're not already subscribed, subscribe because we got to get that. So we're, we're still building up right? So we got to get to that thousand mark so that we can start using some of the interesting tools that are there so you'd be helping us out a great deal. And make sure you're sharing this with all your friends and buddies out there. Some writer out there is counting on you to tell them how to get started so and make sure you bookmark D2Dlive.com. That's the brand new URL we have for putting into this stuff. Each month, you'll get a countdown and everything. And you can see past webinars from there. So go check that out D2Dlive.com. And finally, we have, we've been talking about this beta through the whole thing. So if you are interested in signing up so that when we reopen the beta when you start onboarding, you pop over to draft2digital.com/printbeta right now. Right now, right now, right now, and you will when we start onboarding everybody again soon, you will be among those. So we're at four o'clock, so we're gonna have to wrap this up. But Mr. Dave Chesson, thank you so much for being a part of the program today, man, we appreciate it.
Dave Chesson 60:47
You bet. And thank you so much for having me. All right,
Kevin Tumlinson 60:51
Mark. I salute you, sir.
Mark Lefebvre 60:53
Dave, thank you so much. And Kevin, thank you so much.
Kevin Tumlinson 60:56
All right, and everybody else out there Stay socially. segment is stay healthy and keep writing and we'll see you all on the best sellers list. See you next time. Bye.
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